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Question DetailsAsked on 4/24/2014

1. disposal problem.2. sink backup. 3.Used d/w Then water seeping onto floor appearing under another cabinet..

This house is old (>50 year s in Florida) There is crawlspace under house. Replaced sink, installed disposal and new PVC pipes under sink but not the one that goes into wall several years ago. Only noted seepage when I tried dishwasher. Water is still in dishwasher because I stopped cycle. Now water seeps whenever drain is used and still blocked. I cannot afford high repair $. Homeowners deductible high (Florida ... welcome). Have always been very careful with sink but eggshellls ...

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9 Answers

Voted Best Answer
1
Vote

Did you recently replace the garbage disposal and does the dishwasher drain hose connect to the disposal? If this is the case you may have forgot to knock out the plug in the side inlet of the garbage disposal.


The other problem could be your drain line is leaking or is disconnected under the dishwasher. You might need to replace the drain hose. Most handymen can do this type of repair for a reasonable fee.


Phil

Source: www.homefrontinspection.com

Answered 5 years ago by Homefront Inspection

0
Votes

I don't know how to respond directly to your answer so pardon my ignorance.

Thank you for this good information. No. Disposal not new. Badger 5. But why is water leaking under cabinet not adjacent to DW? I have to admit however; there is a slope downward to that side and water does collect there. But what about water not draining? I did take off that U shaped drain and there were eggshells in it. (Now I know). Stuck fingers in other points of contact but did not feel anything obvious. The dishwasher is old. Got second hand due to economic problems. Can there be something in disposal?

Answered 5 years ago by HollyW5

0
Votes

As I read it, the new piping and disposal were done 2 years ago - so dishwasher has been working fine since then ?


If so, this would rule out the knockout plug in the disposal as a source of the problem - that would be an initial installation issue only.


If water seeps when both side of the sink are used (if two-sided) then wipe around the pipes in the area of the trap from top to bottom till you find wetness - the U-shaped section of pipe just before it goes in to the wall. You might just have a loose fitting - if plastic, most of them can just be hand tightened, or gently using a pair of channel lock pliers.


If leaking on only one side, wipe down all those pipes to dry them, then run a bit of water, then use dry paper towel to locate leak, working from TOP or BOTTOM of pipe - highest place you hit dampness if where leak is appearing.


If wet on garbage disposal side, check not only pipes, but also garbage disposal and also the hose coming from the dishwasher (usually flexible corrugated hose, commonly though not always gray or white or clear) for wetness. Could be a loose hose clamp or connection, or possibly a worn through or leaking garbage disposal or garbage disposal gasket.


You said "Now water seeps whenever drain is used and still blocked" - this leads me to think your trap is plugged and backing up, then you have a loose fitting somewhere that is leaking due to the standing water. If you know how to remove the trap and clean it out that might solve your issue, together with tightening whatever joint is leaking. Not tough to do if made of plastic with screw-on connectors, as long as you keep track of the gaskets on the pipe and which way they go and don't leave any out when you put the pipes back together. If metal pipe, unless you are plumber savvy, better to let a plumber handle it.


In all probability you are looking at only a loose connection, or maybe a cracked pipe - probably minimum service charge call (about $125 plus or minus $50 depending on local labor rates), plus probably less than $25 parts. Search the List for local Plumbers and their reviews.

Answered 5 years ago by LCD

0
Votes

You replied back the right way - that Answer This Question button should also be labeled "or Respond To Answerers".


If there is leakage when you are using either sink side or garbage disposal, then the problem is a leak in the piping under the sink, or a leaking garbage disposal - could be due to a cracked pipe, loose connection, or worns through garbage disposall housing, which typically takes 10 or more years to happen. If you have a backup, then the piping needs to be flushed or snaked out.


If ONLY happens when dishwasher is discharging water, then problem could be a plugged dishwasher discharge line (usually runs to a connection on the garbage disposal, which plugs up easily) - the gray corrugated flexible line coming into top of garbage disposal in the photo in this blog (a couple of pages down in the blog) -


http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showt...


could also be a blockage causing backup in the line from the air breaker, which looks like this -

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Design-Hou...


the dishwasher line comes into the air gap or vacuum breaker, goes out to drain pipe or garbage disposal from other fitting on it. The air gap prevents dirty water from flowing backward into your dishwasher due to siphon action in the dishwasher line - but also leaks the water out at the gap if the line between there and the discharge point gets blocked up with food debris and such.


A minimum service charge Plumber trip and probably less than $25 in parts will likely solve your problem, whichever the problem is.

Answered 5 years ago by LCD

1
Vote

I think I am reading your question a bit differently than the others who answered.

If by saying you replaced the PVC only in the sink cabinet under the sink and did not touch the pipes in the wall I think your problem is in the wall pipes. If they are 50 years old odds are they are galvanized pipes and are probably clogged. It is possible that if they are clogged badly enough the dishwasher drain would leak from a bad joint as the dishwasher is pumped out under more pressure than what you get form just the sink drain.

It sounds to me like you should try getting a drain cleaning company to snake out the line. Depending on you water I have seen galvanized pipes that are still servicable but do not be suprised if they are rusted out and need to be replaced. An honest pipe cleaning company should be able to answer this when they pull the trap to snake the drain. If indeed the pipes are the old galvanized pipes I myself am not to keen on disposals. Copper and certainly PVC pipes are smoother on the insides and tend not to clog as easily.

Hope this helps and I think many drain companies would charge between $100 to $150 for this.


Don

Answered 5 years ago by ContractorDon

0
Votes

i AM TRULY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR ANSWERS. THANK YOU. WISH YOU WERE HERE. The events i described were a progression of over 6 weeks. First disposal jammed. Uhhh broken bit of glass. Ran rough for awhile then subsided. Kept doing that rotating and resetting as kind of routine. About 9 days ago I noticed small back up. Never happened before. What I did do differently was drop in eggshells and rinsed sponge mop head with dog hairs on it. I have 2 large very hairy labradors and hair in drains ... Well I never used Drano, etc. because of damage to PVC. Then 5 days ago i as usual let drainage go down. Then I do as a current routine make sure blades of disposal turn and reset. Ran cold water turned on disposal. Drain worked great. It made that satisfying almost sucking noise so I thought .. ok you did things right. Lets start the dishwasher. Then I got major backup in sink and water seepage. But I did not associate that with D/W. Just being not careful with water bowls, etc. Then last night I borrowed neighbors plunger and plunged and there was a major outpouring from under cabinets. HOWEVER THE AREA UNDER SINK IS DRY. Sunday I did take off pipe where your lost jewelry goes and did find eggshells but not clogged. Just debris. That is not to say they could not have been pushed into other pipes, tubes, etc. And the dog hairs. Tomorrow I will gut it up and run the water again and further check pipes for wetness. Single large basin with disposal. Not too fancy. Yes D/W connection and I also have water filter but that is separate all together with separate handle just for it. Sink, disposal, faucets, installed about 8 years ago so ...

This is South Florida. Rip off capitol of the United States and no one shows any mercy here. Well rarely. Thanks guys. Please coninue.





Answered 5 years ago by HollyW5

0
Votes

As you realize, hard to diagnose from thousands of miles away - and getting senile as I am, I lost my far-seeing specs again.


Sounds to me like you have a drain clog - since you are up to taking the trap apart, did you also clean out the horizontal run of pipe from there into the wall ? Commonly clogs with hair and soap scum and such. Since you are into doing a certain amount yourself, I would say go and get a 10' snake at a box store for about $15, open and reclean the trap, snake back to the garbage disposal gently (don't get hung up in the disposal) or at least run some water (with bucket under of course) to be sure water flows freely that far, then snake as far as you can into the trap stubout and curving down into the wall,, then reassemble trap and check for drainage.


Oh - and no more dog hair or egg shells - hair and shells and stringy vegetable fibers like celery and brocolli are the worst for kitchen traps - hair, broken pieces of soap, greasy skin creme or cleaner, and nail clippings are usually the worst for bathroom basin traps.


I think what might be happening is the clog, wherever it is, is backing up to the sink, and also a little bit out the air gap - which might be nestled on the wall next to the dishwasher (though should not be) in the dishwasher cabient opening - check with a flashlight where the dishwasher hose runs. Hence, when you plunged, you forced some of the water back up the dishwasher discharge line to and out the air gap - if it is in the dishwasher opening that would explain a flooding under the cabients but not under the sink.


Attack the drain blockage first, then if you still have leakage look for leaky pipe joints. BTW - set a fan without heat so it blows in under the cabinet area to dry it out - for safety do not leave on when out of house, but will take 4-8 hours to dry out that water. Do it to avoid mold and mildew and subfloor rot.


Since you had glass in the garbage disposal, wipe all around the disposal first, then run some water and see if any moisture appears on the outside of it - when the wear ring which the grinder pushes stuff up against to grind it goes out, it wears through the disposal casing and leaks from the outer casing of the disposal about mid-height, or out the bottom, depending on make.


Also - when you find the air gap, the cap pulls off - check it is not clogged up in there, which would make the dishwasher pump water that far, get blocked, and come out there instead of going through the other hose to the discharge point at the drasin pipes or garbage disposal.

Answered 5 years ago by LCD

1
Vote

Thank you for the additional info.

With what you added it sounds like it very well be a clogged drain pipe from the dishwasher that has a bad connection that will leak when under pressure. It sounds like you are a bit handy and one possible way to find out would be when you are taking apart the trap as you said you were going to do today would be when you are taking apart the drain today test the dishwasher drain. Since you will probably have to disconnect the dishwasher drain anyway put a 5 gallon bucket under the sink and while holding the drain pipe in the bucket have someone turn on the dishwasher drain cycle. It could be either a broken mechanical air gap or a broken hose, more often as not the air gap is just a loop up and over the top of the sink cabinet and it could be a break in the hose. If working by yourself you will have the hose taped or clamped to the bucket so it does not jump of if the hose is not broken under the washer when and if the water comes out.


Don

Answered 5 years ago by ContractorDon

0
Votes

Not handy. Fairly agile considering 69, broken hip and back and other bones. Determined maybe but nervous about plumbing. My step father was master plumber in California and I know you have to know a lot of trigonometry, etc. to do plumbing.

Th let sink "rest." A few minutes ago i approached the area. Ran water in sink, turned on disposal and no backup but did not run vast quantity of water. Although I did push drain button on dishwasher it does not drain completely. Does this indicate a blockage or just worn out dishwasher?

I am tempted to run dishwasher for short cycle. SHOULD I? I need to mention again that I cannot detect any wet spots around pipes.

Answered 5 years ago by HollyW5

0
Votes

I would try running a lot of water in the sink for 2-3 minutes, first by itself and then running garbage disposal - if no leak or wetness appears, then put in stopper and let sink fill up 4 inches or so, and let that run out. If still no water leak and runs out OK, then the main drain pipes and garbage disposal are NOT the problem - you have a leaking dishwasher or blocked or broken dishwasher hose.



If bad dishwasher, water should show under the dishwasher first place when you use it (may have to remove toe kick piece on it to see under with a flashlight - sometimes press-in, sometimes 2 or 4 screws). If plugged hose or cracked hose, then could leak anywhere along the hose. If plugged at air gap, then will leak there or at hose fitting under dishwasher.



If you find no leaks when trying full water flow and draining sink, then dishwasher hose blockage or break is most likely. Can be fixed by a plumber, but cheaper - and also puts the right person in the house in case dishwasher turns out to be the problem - to have an Appliance Repairman come. Search the List for local ones and their reviews.

Answered 5 years ago by LCD




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