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Question DetailsAsked on 12/5/2015

Can a dishwasher be installed beside a stove?How to get rid of knocking noise from front load washing machine?

I have a small kitchen that does not currently have a dishwasher. In order to install a dishwasher it would need to be placed directly beside the stove. Is this okay? Or should there be some space between a dishwasher and stove?

My home was built in the 1950. I have front load washing machine. When the machine is filling with water there is a loud knocking noise when the water turns on and shuts off. I had a hammer arrestor installed about 9 months ago a little while after purchasing the machine. The arrestor reduced the noise but now its loud again. Can a plumber assist with this issue?

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In some locales there is a minimum clearance for water-using or discharging devices or faucets from electrical built-in appliances - but I have never seen that applied to a washing machine or dishwasher - those code provisions are generally tied to open-water uses like washtubs and faucets and distance from outlets. You would have to check with your local building code enforcement people on that - I do not remember anything in the national building (IRC) or electrical (IEC) codes about that on dishwashers.


Certainly, it is not normal - usually range and cooking items are on one side of the sink, dishwasher and other dish cleaning features to other. Personally, I would not put them side by side without at least a water resistant barrier between them - which could be just a piece of veneer panelling like is used on cabinet sides or a piece of melamine coated plywood or even fiberboard - just to be on the safe side in case of a water leak spraying out of the dishwasher, because 220/240V power and spryaing water gets messy real quick - whether the water is hitting the appliance or the outlet. Be sure to maintain required distance from panel to range/stove for fire protection - most require 1/2-1 inch side clearance, more on some.


I WOULD be sure any divider is double-sided - water resistant on both sides, AND caulked/sealed against both water vapor and spraying water getting at the stove and its outlet, because most dishwashears put out a LOT of moist air during their operation. This is also a consideration for any lower level cabinets or other appliances in the adjacent area - you do not want a lot of moist air getting into your storage cabinets (especially ones containing dry food goods or fruit/vegetable bin), into other appliances like garbage compactor or icemaker or such, and certainly you don't want your reefer/freezer exposed to either the high humidity (rust and dust trapping issues) or heat (makes reefer work harder to cool) from the dishwasher cubby - that should vent only out the front (or outside if outside vented in some cases in warmer climates) so the humid air gets dissipated in the household air rather than condensing in cabinets and appliances and such.

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Washer - there will be a loud click or rap sound commonly from the electrically-controlled water valves when they operate - so check if this sound is coming from the back of the machine (near where hoses go in) or from the piping. If valves, only solution if disturbing to you is removing them and putting in rubber mounting pads between them and the frame - being sure to maintain electrical ground (usually through the bolts is good), but the noise is harmless - they just open and shut quite forcefully and sharply because they are solenoid-operated in almost all cases.


If thumping due to water hammer in the piping, as it sounds like in your case since you said it went away when the arrestor(s) was put in, unfortunately many brands become waterlogged or their one-way valve in them becomes stuck quickly. The following type is common, but because it is small tend to fail pretty soon as water builds up in them -


http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/...


There are also larger, more effective water hammer surge tanks about the size of a small melon like this -


http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-0269...


which work better because they contain more air, but generally do not last as long if they are the diaphragm type (like normal water heater/boiler expansion tanks) because of the surging sharply flexing and eventually breaking the diaphragm. A normal expansion tank will stop the problem but is not designed for this so should NOT be used for this unless rated and sold as a surge arrestor - both because the seam may burst during the hammer events, and also the diaphragm is definitely NOT designed to take surge loads.


The best solution, to my mind, is the old- pipe stickup a couple of feet high (or as high as feasible) right above the shutoff valves in both pipes - looks like this, and works best if 1" or larger pipe - the "old way" as shown in this article -


http://diy.stackexchange.com/question...


Works best if in-line with the flow of water, so while it will frequently work fine in the wall right behind the faucets, it sometimes has to be exposed in the laundry area on the wall by the faucets - with the water hoses to the washer coming up to the faucet area into a Tee - the hose out the bottom, the pipe extension sticking up above to absorb water hammer, and the faucet feeding into the "Tee" side of the fittinglike in the first link above with the small arrestors. Note that a LOT of the manufacturer photos or drawings show the surge arrestors coming off the "side" of the pipe - not in direct line - like this -


http://www.plumbingmart.com/water-ham...


most of the shock wave tends to movbe in a straight line, so a side-mounted one does not work anywhere as well as an in-line one, though sometimes the piping does not readily allow for in-line installation.


One thing that may have happened to yours, since they evidently worked at one time - they may be water logged (filled with water). If the fancier shock-absorber (like cars) piston type you are probably out of luck about fixing it - I have never seen one with a bleed vlave to drain water out. If just an open or mesh-filled chamber passive type, shutting off the supply water and draining the lines down will restore the shock-absorbing air bubble. Easy to do if mounted right at the faucets (on washer side of shutoff faucets) - if in the piping you have to shut off water supply to house and at least partly drain down those lines to let air into them - leaving a high-point faucet open (hose off) to let air in. Let it sit several minutes so the partial vacuum in the arrestor can be broken to let air in - or tap with a screwdriver handle or such to get it to release the water in it. Note if you do that, after it has refilled with air it is best to try to run the faucets till water comes out before reconnecting the washer hoses (and keep hoses filled with water or refill manually), otherwise at first use the pipes and hose lines will be putting a lot of air into the washer, which can be hard on the inlet valves - not to mention terribly noisy at times, and can knock loose debris that can end up in the washer. NOTE - after draining down lines like this, make sure to run faucet or do a cycle with unimportant things or even nothing in case it freed up iron or corrosion products or such, which can stain dishes or clothes.


Also - be sure the faucets that the washer hoses go to are securely tied down with plumbers metal tape or brackets or mounting screws or such, or if not mounted at all (other than to the pipe) that the pipe penetrations into the wall or box are padded with rubber grommets or rubber sheet around them so the pipe can't rattle around. Foam padding works too but packs down and wears out fast - ditto to duct tape. Heavy wrapping with electrical tape can work well but any tape will make the next plumber who has to change out a faucet grump at you - messy to take off, or to solder around because the adhesive is usually highly flammable and smokes and stinks like heck, and makes a good solder joint in close proximity pretty much impossible without a lot of chemical cleaning to remove the tape residue.


BTW - water hammer arrestor would be Plumber work - anything to try to cushion or insulate the washer valves themselves would likely be Appliance Repair - Large territory, though a plumber (like if there to install/drain arrestor) might be able to cushion its mounting with piece of rubber hose or put some insulation around it - though I would be sure he does not tightly confine it as it might heat up too much in use.

Answered 3 years ago by LCD




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