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Question DetailsAsked on 9/17/2014

how should i fill in narrow but "deep" driveway cracks and holes (where i can't see the bottom)?

ok to squeeze quickrete from a tube down the hole (hopefully in 1/4 inch layers), then top off with quickrete via trowel or putty knife? thanks.

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56 Answers

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Sounds like you have an unreinforced slab if you can't see bottom - or old and the reinforcing mesh has rusted away.


Of course, you should consider WHY the cracks are occurring, unless only straight and in construction joints or expansion joints put in when it was cast. Could be an indication, if several or more of these cracks, of inadequate subgrade or to thin a slab. Poor subgrade commonlhy exhibits as wandering crack or broken down corners on the "squares" between expansion/crack control joints. Too thin a slab or lack of reinforcement commonly exhibits as relatively straight cracks parallel or perpendicular (or both) to the sides of the slab.


Basically, you are not going to realistically "repair" a crack like this as a homeowner unless you go with VERY expensive Sika epoxy grouts or equal (think $200/bag) - so the usual DIY key is to prevent water from getting in there and causing frost damage and eroding the subsoil, or accumulating under the slab and causing "pumping" of the slab as you drive on it. After washing it out as well as you can with a jet nozzle on the hose or low pressure pressure washer (without getting excessive amount of water in there) or better yet a jet nozzle on an air hose if you have a compressor, quickcrete to about the width of the crack or 1/2" (whichever is more) from the top would work as a "filler". Out of a tube is likely to get expensive if long or several cracks - mixing in a bucket and putting down in the crack with a trowel or mortar pointer would be more efficient and cheaper, because you can buy a 25#or so sackfor about as much as 2-3 tubes. Then for that 1/2" or so top section use a flexible crack filler - cheap latex ones from Dap and M-D and such are available in concrete color (called Concrete Caulk) in caulk gun tubes for about $4-5/tube, and a tube does about 5-10 lineal feet on a 1/2" crack.


The higher quality solution is a flexible bitumastic (black and sticky) or synthetic rubber or urethane sealant - bitumastic stays flexible better but needs a good coarse sand coat on it for a week or two to prevent tracking all over the drive, and will catch high heels forever - is a tar. The rubber/urethane also typically needs sand over it for a day or two till it cures - typically available in white and gray but not perfect concrete color match, but runs about $10-20/tube !. The key for these type surface sealers is to keep water and grit out of the crack to prevent subgrade damage from the water, and because grit and broken pieces getting in the crack keep wedging it further and further apart.


The reason just quikcrete itself is not a good solution is it is not flexible and also does not adhere to the edges great, so the crack will reopen almost immediately and debris will continue to get in there and wedge the crack wider and wider open over time.


Alternative - professionally by a driveway contractor same solutions are available, plus hot applied liquid asphalt crack sealer - the same stuff used to seal cracks on streets and highways, which is probably the best solution but unless you have a pretty fair number of cracks that is cost prohibitive. It also requires sanding on top to prevent tracking, and is black though I have seen people go back after a week or two (when it is fully cured and not at ALL tacky) and paint it with latex paint or diluted latex concrete caulk to more closely match concrete color.


If you are into trying to do that type of repair itself, you can buy asphaltic joint filler strip and sheet material on the web like this at amazon -


http://www.amazon.com/Dalton-Enterpri...

and in some box and building supply stores, that you heat with a propane torch and melt into the crack - but QUITE expensive for significant length of cracks - something like $1-3/LF depending on crack depth for a 1/2" minus crack width, and messy to work with, plus a bit scary for somepeople as you WILL set fire to it a few times before you get the hang of how much to heat it - no big deal to smother it, but most people are not big on homeowner project flambe´.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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thanks. now i'm overwhelmed and intimidated :(


yes, apparently the slab was not properly reinforced; multiple driveway contractors wouldn't warranty any repair work short of replacement, which is why i'm now trying DIY and life support until replacement is absolutely necessary.


before seeing your response, lowes just recommended self-leveling concrete filler in order to get into the deeper cracks. i'm not sure how to get a 4' wide flat metal tool down these cracks (that are larger than hairline but not shallow) without making a huge mess (though i'm less concerned than one my neighbors about cosmesis).


are you saying that i should only use quickrete for shallow or thin/hairline cracks?


the driveway is concrete, not asphalt. are you saying that products advertised for asphalt will actually work for and adhere properly to concrete?


i'll reconsult lowes about flexible products but would appreciate any clarification you're able to provide in the interim.


thanks!

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Basically speaking, your concrete cracks are tension cracks - due to shrinkage and the slab moving around on its base layer due to thermal expansion and contraction especially. Every time it shrinks in cold weather bits of debris and base course rock get caught in the crack and prevent it from closing back up even if it wants to when it warms up, so your cracks get wider and wider. And of course, if the slab is cracking under car load, every time it moves it opens the cracks up more. Basically, grout patches will fill the crack but just crack free next time it shrinks ormoves. The expensive epoxies like Sika makes will bond and "repair" the crack, but very costly and few are in homeowner friendly packaging - most require pressure pumping equipment - these are the products that are used on dams and airport runways and bridges and such.


That is why I said using a grout to fill most of the crack will do just that - fill it, but not "repair" it. The flexible joint compound for the top of the crack (because it is too pricey to use for the entire crack, plus REALLY hard to get down into the crack) is what you want to keep water and debris out of the crack - basically to reduce the causes of the crack widening up. Nothing you do short of replacement, or sawing out sections and replacing them (which is generally not economic for homeowners), is going to "fix it" - all you can reasonably do for multiple cracks is what you are aiming at - promote its longevity.


As for getting the grout down in there - I would go with a pourable levelling grout - designed for levelling uneven concrete slabs, mixes up at about waffle batter consistency so you can pour it into a crack about 1/4" wide or wider, rodding it down in with a putty knife or strip of something to get it as deep into the crack as possible. Ideal tool if you have it would be an oscillating utility saw with a flat blade down in the crack, as the vibration will cause the grout to mobilize and flow easier, just like a concrete vibrator - otherwise jabbing it down in with a strip of metal like a hacksaw blade is probably about the best you can do. For cracks less than about 1/4" wide it will not flow down in, so you have to just use a concrete joint caulk products in a caulk gun, keeping the tip held tight to the crack till it starts oozing up around the tip, to force it down into the crack.


If the pourable grout sounds like too much, even quart squeeze bottles of asphalt crack filler would be better than nothing - be sure to shake up VERY well as it separates in shipping, but cut tip small and squeeze down into crack as far as you can as you move along and it will at least keep water and debris out for awhile.


And yes - as long as you wash the surface well and let it throughly dry before use, the products for asphalt will work fairly well, though of course the higher-priced elastomeric sealants for concrete do bond better and blend in color better, and tend not to be so sticky to walk on. The press-in or melt-in tar strips will generally bond and stay water-tight better on concrete than the liquid filler or caulk type.


For bottle or tube products, ATCO and other companies make fillers and sealers for asphalt, M-D Products (Macklinburg-Duncan) and Dap and GE and others make concrete joint sealers and caulks - commonly available at home improvement and building supply sources and also online like at Amazon (though some cannot be shipped outside lower-48 states).

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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even more intimidating, but thanks.


what about loctite polyurethane self-leveling concrete crack sealant? i also have another quickrete polyrurethane concrete crack sealant but can't remember why i bought both (recommended by different sales people, but i can't remember if/what the 2nd salesperson, who told me to buy self-leveling, said about the quickrete).


what do these statements mean?

use a "backer rod" for if crack/joint depth exceeds half an inch - what's a backer rod?

quickrete says "for movement joints, use a backer rod to avoid 3-point bonding."

loctite says "avoid bridging the joint which may form air bubbles."

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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ps - someone else also told me to also use "concrete adhesive," which i'm guessing that you would support if you're saying that quikrete is insufficiently adherent?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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OK - you are almost there.


First, about the instructions confusion -


1) concrete adhesive can be two things - a construction adhesive to glue things like fake stone facades to concrete (not what you want), or a bonding agent like Quikcrete's Concrete Bonding Adhesive which you put on concrete before putting on something cementatious like grout or quikcrete, which is fine if you want to go to that trouble - but awfully hard to get down into the crack to "paint" the surfaces to be bonded. Probably not something you want to get involved with unless it comes in a pressurized spray can, which I have never seen, though I guess you could use a narrow paintbrush to try to hit at least some of the surface to be bonded.


2) backer rod is just round foam material (comes in rolls) that is pushed into a crack to block off the crack at a depth of typically 1-2 times its width, so you do not fill the entire crack with crack filler - as a cost-saving measure. Used for this and for caulking/foaming around windows and doors and such. Quick and dirty solution in your cases would be to forget the grout in the bottom of the joint and just shove backer rod (comes in different diameters) down into the crack the specified depth (not needed for about 3/8 or 1/4 and narrower cracks) and put the filler over the top and call it good.


3) the "three-point bond" issue means you do not want to normally bond the surficial joint filler at both edges AND at the bottom of the crack, because that holds the filler rigid at the bottom of the crack so reduces its flexibility and ability to stretch out as the crack opens - not really an issue in your case, as I see it.


4) 'avoid bridging joint to avoid air bubbles' - means when you put the filler in, you do not want to traps air bubbles under it, so you work progressively from one end of the crack to the other, keeping a flowing front of filler ahead of you to push the air ahead of it out of the crack, rather then running it over the top in a bead and then forcing it down into the crack. Think of the filler like theh tide coming in - gradually flowing forward pushing everything ahead of it.


The urethane filler you have is basically similar to Gorilla glue chemically but more flexible when cured - pay close attention to instructions, because it probably calls for dampening the surfaces before application, as most urethanes cure only upon contact with water. Urethanes get messy and quite sticky, so I would use masking tape to protect the concrete surfaces at each side of the joints, and maybe even tape down newspaper on both sides to keep it off the surface, because once on it is extremely difficult to get off without damaging the surface. Might want to use disposable gloves too, and if it gets on your clothes or shoes it is there to stay, so wear your grubbies.


So - bottom line - if your cracks are wide open and deep, and certainly if about 3/8" or more wide, I would initially fill them to within about the crack width of the surface (so 3/8" from the top for 3/8" wide crack, 1/2" for 1/2" crack, but not more than 1/2" in any case) with flowable leveling/crack repair grout like quikcrete concrete crack seal - available in quart premixed bottles or in larger quantities in powder form in a bag. If getting powdered form, watch set time - don't mix more than you can place easily in the setting time, because remember you will have to work slowly to get it to flow and settle down into the joint, and may take a couple of passes to get filled to level you want as it flows down in. Then, after that is cured (a day or so) but don't let cracks get dirty in between), then use the urethane crack filler you have (both brands are fine) to fill in the remaining crack - this is the part that will hopefully move with the crack and keep water and ice and debris out for a few years. Note not uncommon to have some parts that don't bond well, so you may have to replace short sections every year, but hopefully will last several years before it starts coming out in strips, which you can peel out and replace as needed.


BTW - here is a Quikcrete video on concrete crack sealing that might help - lots more for other products on manufacturer websites and Youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHysHb...

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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thanks. another trip to lowes, talked to four different men and got 6 different answers.


since i can't see the bottom of at least two of these holes (after usnig garden hose earlier this week), one salesman recommended putting sand, preferably polymeric, down the hole and allowing it to settle after a few times of rain. another guy disagreed with polymeric sand, saying that i should use ordinary sand. i thought that the previous owners had sand in garage, but there are actually bags of pourable grout in the garage, so if that's your top-choice recommendation, i'll start to read that label...


would you recommend pouring that down just the wider cracks (where i can't see the bottom), or also for

narrow cracks where i can't see the bottom

more superficial pits and holes where i can see the bottom?


otherwise, i'm still confused about what to put on top, or for cracks where i can't use pourable grout -- are there pros or cons of using polyurethane v acrylic, self-leveling v not? also add sealant on top when done?


thanks!



Answered 2 years ago by asker

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If you use sand, that would be just a filler the same as using foam backer rod. I would fill all cracks you can with flowable/self levelling grout or crack filler up to the level recommended by the surface joint "caulk" container - making the unfilled depth (space for crack filler) equal to 1-2 times crack width but not more than 1/2" typically. Clearly, there comes a point where the crack is so thin you can't readily get the flowable grout to go down in there to fill the lower portion, so those cracks you use just the joint/crack filler as deep as you can squeeze it.


I forgot about the holes and popouts issue - those you hose out very well after picking out any loose pieces, degreasing with a grease cutting concrete cleaner if oily from car drips (flush degreaser out well to avoid bonding issues), then with concrete surface damp (toweled or flown out of free water but with the concrete itself still damp colored - check label, but this is true for cementatious grouts, not all epoxy ones) then you fill the hole with the flowable/self levelling grout and trowel it in as necessary, with no crack sealer at all. Best to coat this with some concrete sealer (after cured) for longer life, but sometimes hard to find that in small quantities.


On the flowable grout in the garage from previous owner - be sure it is intended for outdoor use - some are only for levelling interior floors.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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so a "mason"/"driveway" guy came by today and told me to use concrete binder (adhesive) then cement patch (that comes in bags of powder and has to be mixed and poured). is this the same as pourable grout? he said nothing else on top, and that new cement won't bind onto old concrete. if they did this for me, they wouldn't actually warranty any of it....


what's the difference between cement patch, pourable grout, and the squeezable quikrete stuff that comes in quart bottles?


thanks!

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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ps - the pourable grout from the previous owners is intended for indoor use, thanks for the warning :)

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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In response to your followup about "what's the difference between cement patch, pourable grout, and the squeezable quikrete stuff that comes in quart bottles?"


Here is a link to the quikcreste site list of products - you can look through the various concrete repair and driveway repair lines for detailed info on the types and their products, though other manufacturers have similar products too. I will refer to Quikcrete products below though they are not my preferred brand but they are commonly available to consumers and you have them available, so I will refer to them for your convenience.


http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/...


Cement patch is a grout (like Quikcrete Concrete Patching Compound 8650-35) designed to be used to patch pits and holes in concrete, comes as a premix or as a powder you mix to about cake mix consistency and trowel on. Typically recommends a concrete binder or adhesive (like Quikcrete Bonding Adhesive 9902) if a straight cement-based repair material - some latex or epoxy modified ones (more expensive by factor of two or so) are recommended for use directly on clean rough (like broken-out) concrete. Some of the highly epoxy modified grouts can be used directly on clean but not roughened concrete, though outdoors without a rough or broken surface their bond is dubious.


Pourable grout is simply one that has fluidifiers like flyash or acrylic or resin modifiers to make it cure correctly with enough liquid in it to allow it to flow into cracks and such, and is commonly heavily latex modified if sold as a crack filler - like the squeeze bottles of concrete crack filler (like Quikcrete Concrete Crack Sealer 8640).


Self-leveling grout (like Quikcrete Concrete Resurfacer 1131 if mixed to liquid consistency) is somewhere in between - has modifiers to allow it to flow out enough it roughly self-levels at about pancake batter consistency - would work for your surficial popouts but may or may not be flowable enough to work in the cracks - would certainly take some rodding or putty knife poking in to get it flowing down in fast enough to not drive you crazy, and probably cracks less than about 1/4-1/2" it will bridge over rather than flowing down into.


For your purposes for a DIY job, if you want one product likely to work for everything but the surficial crack waterproofing (like the latex crack sealer), I would recommend Concrete Patching Compound 8650-35 for several reasons - because it can be mixed trowelable for the spall and popout repairs, and pourable for the crack filling, does not require 3000-4000 psi pressure washing first to prep the surface nor a concrete adhesive/binder, and comes premixed so easier to use, though will be more expensive than the Resurfacing 1131 product for that reason - but hopefully you are not talking a large amount.


The reason to use the separate crack sealer for the top 1/4-1/2" of the cracks, again, is if you use grout it will crack away the next time the crack moves, andjust pop out - you need a flexible compound like the latex crack filler at least at the top (and can be used full depth but pricey to do so on large cracks) because it will bond at the sides and is at least somewhat flexible.


BTW - I think I mentioned this, but if you take care with degreasing, picking out loose pieces, and hosing thoroughly and then making sure the surface is appropriate dampness or dryness for the product being used, with minimal tools and a bit of care to avoid getting it all over there is no reason you cannot do this yourself.


Note - when working with the material in cracks, MUCH easier to use an old coffee can or plastic drinking glass to dip some mixed product up and pour from that than try to handle a gallon can of pourable crack filler or 5-10 lb pail of mixed grout over a crack. And don't forget to have a bucket of clean water and sponge handy to clean up any spills ASAP, before they spread or can set. And this time of year, if in a northern area, watch your allowable temperatures, and should be protected if if will be exposed to temps below 40 within a couple of days after application.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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thanks - we're getting to a simpler, happier place :) should the binder adhesive be applied to wet or dry surfaces? i'm off to home depot to see what they have. other brands you would recommend that are readily accessible to and usable by commonfolk?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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home depot doesn't carry quikrete, only sakrete. i could go back to lowe's, but do you think the brands are functionally equivalent or not? if you prefer sakrete (or another brand that i could obtain in a store), could you pls advise which specific products i should buy? thanks again :)

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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so i've obtained the products you recommended and used degreaser, for whatever that's worth. should i also use the quikrete concrete patcher to fill in cracks in between the driveway and retaining wall? tips on how ordinary ppl can get the product to go down cracks that are maybe 1/2 inch wide - that don't involve saws and oscillators? :)


should i also apply binding adhesive in between each 1/4 inch layer of quikrete - or not?


thanks!

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Read instructions on packaging on damp or dry on the adhesive - if item Quikcrete 9901 or 9902 adhesive goes on dry concrete surface.


Not sure which product you are using - if the vinyl concrete patcher, then you do NOT use the adhesive - see instruction on the web- and use up to 1/4" layers as necessary to fill holes, making sure top one is not real thin, no adhesive between layers - see instructions on package for curing time between layers.


http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/DATA_SHE...


If using one of the other concrete patch products, read instructions - the non-modified ones typically DO use an adhesive/binder, the modified ones typically do NOT.


Different products are pretty similar for the cheaper brands - like Sakrete, Kryton HydroSeal, Quikcrete, Duracrete, Dap. The more expensive ones (normally only through pro builder supply houses/lumber yards) like DuPont, BASF, Ardex, FlexSet work better in my opinion but not enough so I would recommend a DIY'er search them out for a normal home repair job, as opposed to say a pool or similar water-retaining structure. I personally am not a fan of Sakrete - I have seen a lot of poor results with it, but not sure if because of bad product or because it seems to be a favorite of homeowners and handymen so the workmanship is probably less professional.


Go ahead, throw a kink in the work - where did the retaining wall come from ? Treat this as a construction/expansion joint - the straight pre-grooved joints like this (typically 4-6 feet apart), which may or may not have a compressible board or plastic gasket in them -

http://www.trim-a-slab.com/installati...


and put in backer rod (if crack is wide or deep, to save on material) and then fill crack with the flexible joint caulk material like this - the image in item 2 showing slab to brick wall joint, though caulk thickness in picture is much thinner than it should be for the crack width shown -


http://www.thrasherbasement.com/found...


As for getting repair mix down into crack - use a thin piece of plastic or metal to "saw" up and down in the crack to move the material down, or you can use trowel on edge or putty knife for wider gaps. Or you could force it down by progressively pressing it in with a flat trowel or such tool, but that means when you have it full you then have to gouge back out the top part to leave space for the waterproofing "caulk" layer, so easier to just vibrate it down in. Depending on which product you are using, some allow thinning to broomable thickness for overcoating a surface (like one damaged by ice melt) so if so, thin it to that consistency to make it pourable.


I think that got all your questions- happy home repairs - and don't forget cardboard or a foam pad or such to kneel on to save your knees, and the shoes you wear will get badly toe scuffed so wear grubbies all around.


Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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lowes told me not to wait for bonding adhesive to dry before using cement, but the label seems to indicate otherwise. could you please advise?


they also told me not to dilute the adhesive and paint onto damaged cement directly, but another DIY said you should dilute and apply as primer, *then* paint on a full coat. will the adhesive be less effective if only an undiluted first coat was applied?


it's also hard to keep dirt and debris out of these cracks... :(

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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also if the concrete patch doesn't bind well, could i just squeeze latex crack filler into the big cracks and call it a day? if so, exactly which quikrete product? thanks.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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if it's going to rain on thursday (today's monday), should i stop work after tuesday morning, or not even bother?


finally, recommendations on sealing the driveway after i've filled in the cracks?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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crack between the driveway is probably less than half an inch thick. retaining wall was also poorly constructed (without reinforcement) so that it's buckling. if the crack isn't very wide but who knows how deep, should i try to slice the backing rod to shove it down the crack? or just accept that all the concrete/masonry work was just of poor quality and brace myself for replacement? what should i be looking for in contractor bids to replace retaining wall and driveway?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Quikcrete Concrete Patching Compound 8650-35 is what i'm using. label doesn't mention adhesive. am i wasting time/$ by using one, or might it enhance performance/longevity?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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could you pls answer? i respect and trust your fund of knowledge and don't know what i'm doing :)

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Sorry - was not avoiding you - I just do not sign onto this site every day (I am NOT in any way related to or an employee of Angies List) and did not notice the new postings by you - most of my responses are posted on weekends. I will try to answer your final questions below:


1) here are instructions for your patch and the adhesive, though they should be on container too -


http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/DATA_SHE...


http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/DATA_SHE...


2) You do NOT need (or want to use) the adhesive with that particular patching compound, which is made of basically the same acrylic latex as the adhesive is. The adhesive is for use with cememtatious patching compounds or concrete.


3) The reason for the grout fill under the crack filler "caulk" is to prevent it from being pushed down in the crack as you drive on it, especially in areas with ice or snow to help push it down under tires. You can use sand (including emulsified sand) as a filler for the lower part of the crack if you want, but it is less resistant and washes out easier and does not laterally support the concrete as well, causing earlier joint failure.


4) I realize we are past the weather days you were talking about, but read the instructions - the patch says not to use if rain is forecast within 12 hours - I would not use if forecasted within 24 hours to be on the safe side. Read the packaging on the crack "caulk" sealer - typically about 4-12 hours before it can safely get wet, but again 24 hours would be more desireable - also gives you some leeway on the forecast accuracy. However, if you are up against temperature limitation due to fall weather, I would skimp on the rain-free time (or cover it after application) rather than try to cheat on the temperature.


5) The backing rod comes in different sizes, but can be slit also - you just want a firm fit to the sides so the flexible joint "caulk" or sealant does not go below it - strictly a materials-saving measure because largish cracks can eat up a LOT of flexible joint filler - especially if using caulk tube, it get old real quick.


6) On the retaining wall - I would NOT use the grout in the crack between the wall and the drive, because it is better to provide a flexible joint there sothe wall does not start cruching the concrete edge if it moves forward due to soil pressure behind the wall, so just use the backer rod and the flexible joint filler "caulk".


I think that got all of them - good luck.


Oh - on the retaining wall and driveway replacement issues - you can find prior responses on that issue and typical costs in the Home > Driveway and LAwn and Garden > Hardscaping and Pavers links in Browse Projects at lower left. Also some AL articles - google search phrases like these - retaining wall contract angies list - or - things to put in a contract angies list. Also good articles on that subject on other sites like This Old House where they have done a lot of retaining wall replacements - including showing how to DIY if a low wall (say under 2-3 feet high).

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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Is the bonding adhesive at all helpful or does it hurt if used with concrete patch? is concrete patch for all driveway cracks a bad idea bc not "flexible"? Exactly which "flexible crack filler" (prob quickrete, or whatever's at lowes) should I use for retaining wall/driveway joint? Thoughts on sealing driveway after cracks filled in? I read that some sealing contractor deals won't Seal if previous sealant cracked - potential harm or hassle to sealing? Thanks!

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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In response to these questions -


"Is the bonding adhesive at all helpful or does it hurt if used with concrete patch? is concrete patch for all driveway cracks a bad idea bc not "flexible"? Exactly which "flexible crack filler" (prob quickrete, or whatever's at lowes) should I use for retaining wall/driveway joint? Thoughts on sealing driveway after cracks filled in? I read that some sealing contractor deals won't Seal if previous sealant cracked - potential harm or hassle to sealing?"



Manufacturer does not address adhesive under the product you are using - since the patch you are using is essentially the same material, I would not think it would hurt, though cannot be sure - you would have to eMail them for into on that, but I don't see that would be very helpful either.



The not being flexible for the patch is not a consideration - you want good bonding and a durable wearing surface - a "soft" or flexible patch would not last long on the surface.In the cracks, basically it would be a filler that will not wash away - you could use emulsified sand for that but I would think it would harm the bonding of the joint filler above it, as it would contaminate the crack surfaces. Of course the concrete patch would do the same, except that that it would be bonded and not a loose contamination - and of course you are only using that as a filler on the wider joints to avoid using up so much expensive joint "caulk".



The flexible crack filler would be the "caulk" joint filler you are using to seal the top to the rest of the cracks from water and dirt - the intent on the other cracks is to keep water and ice and dirt out to stop further damage and wedging open of the joint area, so you use a flexible sealer at the surface to allow the joint to move with temperature changes but still keep a seal. At the retaining wall the idea is the same, plus to provide a flexible or "soft" gap between them so if the wall moves a bit forward it does not buckle or cruch the driveway concrete - hence flexible joint filler only. Normally this joint should have been formed with a compressible joint filler in it - an asphaltic fiberboard is the cheapest and least effective, and foam sheeting not much better - compressible asphaltic strip is what I like the best, with "concrete caulk" over the top to eliminate the stickiness for concrete use.


Quikcrete Polyurethane Self-levelling Sealant 8660, Sakcrete Polyurethane Self-levelling Sealant 174, Titebond Concrete Joint SL Sealant are all roughly comparable compounds which will do this - each has different recommendations regarding using backer rod to avoid three-point bonding though so read the instructions, though personally my experience is with deep cracks the three-point bonding is not an issue. Companies like Dap and M-D and GE also make latex concrete caulk which is a lot cheaper, but will not last as long or stick as well in n the long run - matter of quality over cost, I think.



Contractors will not warranty, or some will not do sealing job at all, over existing sealer that has any cracking or delamination because it will likely peel from underneath, ruining the job. For a DIY job any peeling ro cracked sealer can be mostly removed with a belt sander, hand sandblaster, or abrasive paint remover disc or pad in a hand grinder - or a higher-pressure pressure washer than most homeowners have.


Sakcrete, Quikcrete, Rustoleum, Sherwin Williams, Seal-Krete, Dryway and other all make similar driveway sealer products that are readily available in home improvement stores. The latex ones lasst the shortest time, silicone next, siloxane longer, and the expensive "coatings" using epoxy or polyurethane or urea compounds (like for fancy garage floors) cost way more but last the lonest, but are rarely used for residential jobs.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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so i was using the concrete patch plus adhesive for everything since that's how i understood one of your previous responses. now scratch the adhesive.


1. is it "bad" to use the concrete patch all the way up to the driveway surface? if not, at what point should i stop and switch to a flexible caulk sealant?

2. i was also using concrete patch to "cover up" thinner cracks that could have been caulked - is that also bad?

3. is latex concrete patch not sufficiently flexible to be at surface or sole product?


4. i'm confused about what to do between driveway and retaining wall - do i hear that you're now saying not to try to shove cut up backing rod then top off with concrete patch? exactly what should i do/use?


5. someone else advised that my lopsided driveway may have already "settled" and is not actively sinking, so i'm not sure to what extent active "heaving" is an issue - but i've seen the driveway cracks enlarge over the past year since i bought this dump, so i'm trying to prepare for winter....thanks....!

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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You need to read the instructions for the specific product you are using, about adhesive use, thickness, prep, curing time before recoat or filler on top, etc. And of course keep surface clean between start and finish. Most manufacturer websites also have videos on how to use the products (as well as other videos on Youtube and This Old House and such) - I would suggest you view a few of them, adjusting to conform to manufacturer recommendations for the actual products you are using.


1) the concrete patch, if used in the cracks all the way to the top, will crack away at one or both sides almost immediately because it is not flexible - think of it as concrete so it cannot accomodate movement between the slabs without cracking and breaking up - that is why you need the flexible crack filler or sealer at the top of the crack, as well as to keep water and dirt out of the crack.


2) the caulked small cracks you covered over with concrete patch material may survive if not moving any more, but if the crack moves or reopens the concrete patch over the top will probably just pop out - but sounds like with the condition your drive is in this may be an every year or every 2 year chore anyway, to refill or seal old cracks and new cracks that open up, until you finally reach the point where replacement is the only answer - which is normally when you either start getting numerous fist sized or larger chunks of concrete cracking off, the cracks start moving vertically relative to each other so much that you don't want to risk tire damage driving over them, you get tired of tripping over them, or it is so unsightly that you call it quits. At that point your driveway is basically just concrete pavers - and you can keep it going as long as you want as it breaks up by relevelling slabs a bit with coarse sand as needed, and replacing broken off pieces with crushed stone fill.


3) latex concrete PATCH you should consider as just patch concrete without the coarse aggregate that is normally in concrete - the latex makes it stick better to the damaged concrete and makes it more frost resistant, but it does not make it flexible. therefore, PATCH is for repairing surficial popouts and holes, and can be used as the bottom fill in larger cracks, but to waterproof the cracks you need joint filler at least at the top - full depth is generally OK but expensive.


4) at retaining wall - you want an expansion gap there, so do put foam caulk strip in the crack to recommended depth on crack filler packaging, then the flexible crack filler - NOT concrete patch - over the top - which will mean you have an open gap under the foam at that joint only, but you need that open expansion/movement space there, whereas the other joints you are driving on need support under the surficial crack filler/sealer.


5) Once cracked the slabs will continue to move around - tilt (hopefully slightly), corners will break down and eventually break loose due to washing out of fines from the base material underneath, and cracks will develop as it moves around and develops more and more uneven support under it and maybe frost heaves - obviously breaks up faster in heavy freezing areas and under heavier vehicles like large pickups and RV's, and also will break up faster if built on poor base material underneath it.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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Thanks for sobering prognosis, though depressing. ecactly what should I buy to put down crack in between driveway and retaining wall? Crack isn't that wide, there was previously something rubbery looking along crack, dk what underneath. Thx.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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for the cracks that i've already filled with concrete patch up to the top, what about *covering* with the self-leveling sealant for *waterproofing,* since it's too late to use the latter product for *flexibility*...thanks.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Yes - you can coat (maybe with putty knife or trowel, and tape along the edges if you want a straight-edges repair otherwiseit willlook blotchy) the self-leveling joint sealer over the patch you put in the crack - can't hurt and will reduce water infiltration, at least until it gets worn away by vehicle traffic. Those are likely to be the first ones that need redoing with the crack sealer in the future - as the grout filling cracks and breaks up, chip or hook it out and replace with crack filler - can be done incrementally over the years as the grout deteriorates.


Try to avoid driving on the cracks for the recommended period of time on packaging - but if not avoidable, atleat do not park the wheels on the cracks for a week or so, because it can stick to the tires and pull out of the crack. Not hard to refill, but a nuisance to have to do that.


At the retaining wall crack dig and vacuum or blow out the existing filler material and debris to a depth enough to get a piece of foam backing rod down in there and still have the recommended depth open to put the self levelling crack filler to the recommended depth - will be on package, fill depth from 1/2 crack depth to 2x crack depth depending on manufacturer, though I personally just tend to stay at 1/2" depth regardless of depth - thinner tends to break out too easy. If what you are digging out is black asphaltic-impregnated fiberboard or foam strip or caulk, then that can replace the foam backer rod and use the joint filler right on top of that for designated thickness of filler.


I did not mean to be too negative on your driveway condition - by keeping the cracks filled so water does not get down into them, as long as it is not already cracking up all overinto individual pieces you may extend the usable life of the drive by 5-10 years, especially if in an area where you get a fair amount of freeze-thaw action or have to use ice melt on the concrete.


BTW - on the ice melt, for certain avoid "salt" - sodium chloride. Calcium chloride is better but still damaging, the least damaging are the "concrete safe" (not totally but a lot better) non-chloride icemelt products - I think from years of experience that it makes an easy 3-4 times difference in the number and severity of concrete popouts, and even more difference than that on asphalt.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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so just to break this down again. for large holes and cracks: foam backer rod, then concrete patch to make crack shallower and narrower for the sealant, which i should use for flexibility? is the whole point of the sealant to allow the slabs to move without everything coming undone? i thought i was doing a good thing by putting concrete over the smaller cracks, but apparently not. when i'm done, just cover everything with the sealant if i'm not using it for cracks along the way.


about one week ago, i squirted "mortar repair" along brick walls/steps where mortar seemed to be eroding, still becomes spongy when it rains. i just noticed other places where mortar has turned to sand, so i filled in with concrete patch in between brick - ok (or not)? i tried not to put too too much, wait a few days, then fill in more....

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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No - for large cracks except the one between drive and retaining wall which doesnot get the concrete patch, FIRST concrete patch to fill up toward top (leaving room for backer rod and joint filler), then backer rod to prevent the sealant from bonding with the concrete patch, then the flexible joint sealant on top per directions on package. The sealant serves to keep water and dirt out of the crack (which further damages the joint area), so it has to be flexible to remain bonded to both sides of the crack as it moves. The concrete patch will not do that.

And any joint with original-looking fiberboard or rubber sealant or asphaltic sealant in it is an expansion joint, so just gets joint sealer in the top, because it needs to be able to compress as the slabs expand. Typically just 1/2 or 3/4" wide.

For small cracks the joint filler only, with backer rod under it if you can get some in.

Using the joint filler as an overall covering is not going to work well - will not typically bond well on the flat surface, will be uneven, and stays sticky for days to maybe even a week, so will peel off on tires. In a crack it might stick here and there but basically down out of the normal wear zone so you can drive on it in a day or so.

The mortar turning to sand may be due to excessive water exposure, a poor mix originally, freeze-thaw damage, or just because it is getting old - typically has to be "repointed" or repaired every 15-25 years.

For mortar joints in brick walls, you should be using a brick mortar only. Mortar is not the same as concrete, so concrete patch should not be used to repair mortar because it seals it from evaporating moisture and is too "hard" for the brick - can cause brick failure. Mortar is made of lime and sand with varying fairly small amounts of cement, not pure or fairly pure cement like regular grout. For horizontal joints in a walk you could use the same flexible joint filler you are using for the concrete for repair, though will not look the same as the mortar.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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sorry, you lost me again. i thought you said thatbacker rod could be used to fill in large gaps and to "save product" (concrete patch). so i should be putting as much concrete patch as will fit down the big holes and cracks, *then* backer rod, *then* sealant on top?


exactly which "product" is joint filler? and which product is sealant (quikrete 8640 - the one that goes with foam backer rod in the one-quart squeeze bottle)?


joints (not cracks) along edge of driveway had foam backing rod plus rubber sealant -- both now exposed and well over one inch wide. should i just pour more quikrete 8640 on top?


for the cracks that i already covered (to the surface) with concrete patch, i just poured the 8640 sealant on top for additional weatherproofing.


too late for the mortar/cement advice....what is "brick failure" = cracking? just see what happens or call a mason now?


Answered 2 years ago by asker

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also one of the holes in my driveway seems to go diagonally all the way through the slab, so that i can't see the bottom, but there's standing water. maybe one inch in diameter - what should i put in the hole?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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8650-35 is the Concrete Patch - used to patch surface popouts and holes in the flat concrete surface, and also to fill the voids in the bottom of the cracks - up to a distance from the top that leaves room for the backer rod and crack seal. Also used to seal cracks that are too small to effectively get any depth of sealer in - microcracks that are just the start of popouts for instance.

8640 is the Crack Sealant - used to fill small cracks too narrow to get the patch into (say less than 1/4" wide or perhaps a bit wider if very jagged crack. Also used to fill the top of the larger cracks above the backer rod, to provide a flexible surface seal on the crack to keep water and dirt out. Personally, I normally ignore the backer rod in true winer areas IF putting filler patch in the bottom of the crack even though most manufacturers say to avoid 3-point bonding, because using the backer rod over the patch leaves voids under the crack sealer (round rod in rectangular space) that will accumulate water when the surface seal leaks and promote frost damage and frost popout of the sealer.

At the retaining wall - assuming it is not effectively filling the crack full width and providing a good seal, I would gouge out the existing rubber crack sealer down 1/4-1/2" approximately, then use the 8640 to refill that crack to waterproof it. Since you have an effective blockage in the bottom now, I would not worry about the foam backer rod there- put the 8640 right over the gouged-out crack filler 1/4-1/2" thick. Because of the crack width, count on it possibly peeling away from one side, so you may need to go back in a week or two (or maybe next spring if does not happen immediately) and reseal the crack as it opens up - probably will be an annual thing since you said the retaining wall is moving and possibly failing.

On the brick - I would not worry at this time - just use brick mortar next time you need to do repairs on the brick wall surfaces, and the 8640 Crack Sealant on cracks in the walking surface as pieces of mortar/grout pop out of the joints. Using concrete or concrete patch products which are too strong can, if used in depth (not just a smear-on thin coating) create a "hard spot" in the system. Brick expands and contracts a LOT with moisture changes - mortar is actually quite soft, so it allows for brick movement without breaking out the mortar or cracking the brick. Building a brick wall with portland cement will cause fracturing of the brick. Also, mortar breathes easily so moisture in the brick can escape and evaporate - concrete/grout is a lot more watertight, so causes moisture deterioration of the brick.


On the diagonal hole - assuming you actually mean a hole and not a crack (which would be treated like any other crack) which sounds like maybe they use a concrete vibrator in concretethat was already setting up - try to get the water out as much as you can. Blow out with compressed air if you have a compressor, use leaf blower, soak up with spiral-wrapped paper towels, whatever - because if you put patch down in there over the water it can push the water up along the sides of the hole, preventing bonding ofthe patch material. I would not worry overly on it, but get what you can out, then use the 8650-35, rodding it down in with a stick or screwdriver or whatever works, all the way to surface.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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so for the large holes, i should use the concrete patch all the way to the surface, forget the foam backer rod? this would apply to the diagonal hole in driveway, and large holes near the junction of front steps.


is there any harm to filling larger cracks with concrete patch then covering everything with sealant? are the backer rods necessary to provide flexibility?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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At retaining wall - no concrete patch, backer rod and joint filler (sealer) as indicated yesterday, so this is a highly compressible joint that can move if needed.


Holes, popouts, spalls, hairline cracks in slabs - use the patch material only.


Sizeable cracks fill with patch, leaving room at top for sealer layer per instructions on container - whether you use foam backer rod under the sealer is up to you - I commonly do not, manufacturers do recommend it in most cases. However, do not fillto top with patch - will break up and pop out very shortly - you need the 1/4-1/2" (typically) crack sealer in the top of the crack. Narrow cracks that you can't reasonable get the concrete patch material down into use the crack sealer only.


If you have popouts, broken-over slab corners, etc at the edge of a crack, do the popout or broken edge first, holding the top of the crack open by stuffing it with cardboard or strips of wood so the patch does not go down into it, then after patch has set up fix the crack like any other crack.. You want to do it in that order so the crack sealer bonds correctly to the patch - the patch material will not bond correctly to cured crack sealer.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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if i've already filled in some (of many) smaller popouts with concrete patch, should i just put sealant on top? it's like my driveway has freckles in some areas.


i've been trying to put concrete patch and sealant in 1/4-inch layers. unfortunately it rained today (starting about 18 hours since yesterday's application) -- debris on some sealant where i was going to continue layering. just continue layering on top?


for the large holes, should i also try to adhere to the 1/4 inch per 24 hours?


this is taking for..e...ver!


Answered 2 years ago by asker

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for the deep dark holes, would quick setting concrete be an option? if so, exactly which products should i use? i'm afraid that quikrete concrete patch won't bond properly to holes that can't completely dry out.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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so now i'm also reading that new concrete should be kept moist so that it becomes harder and stronger. oops i thought that all of these layers were supposed to dry out before i apply the next layer. so should i just not worry about more liberally shoving concrete patch down the deep holes that aren't as completely dry as the above-ground cracks?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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You need to read the instructions on the packages ! You started off this question with the 1/4 layer idea - not sure where you got that, but forget it ! A given product goes in all at once, and gets a second payer of same product only if is shrinks or settles down in and leaves a surface dinple that has to be refilled with same product.
Popouts and thin cracks you fill with the concrete patch without sealer, and yes will make your driveway look like it had smallpox. Only ways to eliminate that are, after patches and cracks are all done, to thin a cement patch compound like #1585 below (NOT the one you are using) to paintbrush or squeegee spreadable consistency and cover the entire area (or affected blocks) with it as a very thin skim coat, which will mostly stick but will eventually delaminate in some areas if not sandblasted to roughen the surface first - and pretty expensive to coat large areas that way - but short of recoating your entire drive with an overlay product (expensive) it will not look totally consistent. At this point you are looking for protecting the drive to make it last a few more years, not appearance. If appearance is real important, there is one other solution - there are a few opaque colored concrete sealers out there - you could use one of them after the repairs have all cured the specified time (typically 1 week to 1 month) to recolor the drive surface so it looks uniform. For the cracks that got wet and dirty - wash out with hose, then dry - leaf blower works well to blow out the free water as does compressed air if you have a compressor, then let sun dry or use hair dryer or hot air gun (be sure no free water is in there that can splash up from holes into dryer as it will short it out and could electrocute you) to dry surface dry for those products that need dry surface. Deep holes - I am not clear what caused these, but if there are just a couple I would just blow/soak/sponge up what water you can, let it dry a bit, then use the concrete patch full depth and see if it holds. IF you have a lot of them, enough to use up another pail of material, then a fast setting non-shrink cement-based (NOT acrylic or latex) grout like Quikcrete FastSet Non Shrink Grout #1585 requires damp surfaces to bond to, so you could clear holes of as much free water as you can with leaf blower or compressed air or sponge then immediately fill holes with grout. Note short setting time, so don't mix more than you can use in a short time, and best to use disposable mixing container like old cut off milk jug or coffee can.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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The 1/4 inch notion came from concrete patch label instruction to apply in 1:4 lifts. Wait 24 hours in between layers. So what does that mean?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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clarification - instructions seem to say to apply in "1/4 inch lifts."

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Here is the instructions I find on the web, unless you have changed from the 8650 product that I thought you said you were using - I don't find anything about a 1:4 lift (I presume that meant 1/4"). The 1/4" limit usually is used for levelling/resurfacing products where you are resurfacing the entire area, not just doing patches. Perhaps you initially read that on another product which you did not end up using ?


It does say this product can be used in cracks less than 1/4" thick (meaning the ones too shallow for the joint filler/sealants to reliably seal, which we have talked about before), and also it says for holes more than 1/4" thick put in a 1/8" layer first - as a bonding coat I am sure, but I do not read it as 1/4" lifts. You could clairify with the manufacturer by eMail if you want, but I have always used these products full-thickness up to several inches thick with no problem. The only places I have used it in lifts or layers is for patching vertical surfaces, where a thick layer will not hold in place without slumping out.


http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/DATA_SHEET-ConcretePatchingCompound.pdf.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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same product. the label on container says "for holes or cracks over 1/4" deep, apply in 1/4" layers - wait 24 hours between layers. not intended for structural strenght or large areas such as 1/2 sq ft, 1/2" deep." i left voicemail for quikrete last week, haven't heard anything.


Answered 2 years ago by asker

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OK - that IS confusing - appears container instructions are different than printed ones on the web.


I would contact them here with your situation and the 1/4" question - most manufacturers respond quicker to website-generated eMails than voicemails.


http://www.quikrete.com/ContactUs/Mai...

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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thanks, will let you know if/when i hear. in the meantime, unfortunately i feel like i've been wasting time and energy and wheelspinning on my stupid lopsided concrete slabs! :(


Answered 2 years ago by asker

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also it unexpectedly rained again last night after i started putting concrete patch down one of the deep dark holes. this morning the concrete level had risen well above where i had stopped, so i'm concerned about it being weaker as it hardens. i'm inclined to try to remove what i can from the hole while the patch is still wet and try to start over. or should i just let it harden longer, in the hopes the excess water will just evaporate?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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You already know you will have a few popouts and holes and reopened cracks to fill every year - I would just finish it off and see what happens. Obviously you cannot go for perfection on this project - I would say get it done with the realization you will have repairs to do every year till it gets to the hopeless point and you have to replace the entire drive.


One other thing - since you have talked about water in the holes several times - water under the slab erodes the finer material in the fill and promotes rocking and cracking of the slabs, so anything you can do to prevent surface runoff from getting in under the slabs would help - a little ditching along the high edge to keep the water from getting in under the slab, etc. Whatever you can readily do.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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Quickrete concurred with the product label and told me to use "sand topping mix" for the deeper holes.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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ps - quikrete has yet to answer my question about why the concrete patch wouldn't work and why they're recommending their other product for my deeper holes. i'd appreciate any insight into the other product, otherwise it feels like they just want me to buy more product.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Not to get gory, but think of it like a combat wound - a flesh wound you slap a bandage on or cover with wound repair superglue, which stick to the surface and provide a thin protective covering and stop slow bleeding. A deep or large wound you have to pack with gauze to provide some more strength or reinforcing to stop the bleeding because the thin surface patch will pop off.


In your case, the concrete patch (I don't normally use that product so can't say from recent direct experience) is evidently intended as a thin overlay patch material like a bandaid, and it does not contain any aggregate - either sand or gravel. They are saying for a deep hole you need to put in something with some aggregate in it - sand in this case as coarse aggregate cannot go down into a deep narrow hole readily.


Whether the patch you are using would actually work ? I can't say definitively, but most likely yes, though if put in all at once it might tend to shrink away from the sides as it cures - perhaps why they put the 1/4" layer requirement on the container. Sounds like it you continue the 1/4 (or maybe 1/2") thick layers you would be close to the intended application method. Of course, if you have a number of these that will take quite a volume of material, it will be cheaper to use a concrete repair mix with some aggregate in it, because that is always chaper than pure grout repair compounds, but consideringthe overallcondition of your drive I would think just plugging it full of the patch you are using and rodding it down in to totally fill the holes would be a big step forward from where it would be with no repair at all - if it pulls away or sags a bit (it will probably sag as it cures) you could then go back over the top with a thin trowel layer to level it out, or use the joint filler if there are small shrinkage cracks around the patch.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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i asked quikrete about using sand topping mix, which is supposedly not for more than 2" thickness. so they told me they misunderstood and advised fast setting repair mortar or quicksetting cement, recommending the fast setting repair mortar for reasons that are unclear to me. i'm going to try to fill in the larger holes with this product tomorrow or asap - any tips on using? specifically, if i don't think i can use the entire 3-lb bag at one time, can i dump out what i might need into a plastic cup, mix, then just pour that down the hole?


quikrete said that concrete patch has no hardness or strength, use only for cosmetic repairs; the sealant that comes in quart bottle isn't sealant.


frustrating to think that i've been wasting so much time and energy over the past several weeks.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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On the responses about the patch not being hard or the sealant not being a sealant - sounds like you got a bad rep on that one, because those products have been around for decades and used for those specific purposes, and if you read the full PDF instruction files what you are using them for is exactly what they are recommended for.


I grant Quikcrete is not a top-end product, as it is made fairly cheaply for the consumer market rather than professional mmarket (but also made easier to use for that reason), but they should work as well for you as can be expected given your concrete condition. I don't think you have wasted your time - just keep an eye on performance and if it does not perform well then in the future if you opt for more longevity repairs, consider another brand.


For the hole filling, I would go with a cement product not mortar - mortar is made for use in stone and brick joints, not as a concrete patch. I would still use the patch you are using and just fill the holes in, then go back a day or two later and level off with same product if it sags and call it good.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD

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what should i use for area directly underneath the short retaining wall next to driveway, where i'm not sure if driveway has settled so that the driveway no longer touches the retaining wall? backing rod + crack sealant that comes in quart bottle - or backing rod + mortar repair? thanks.

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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i'm also noticing a gap/hole, that is as tall as my thumb is wide, in between driveway and brick front of house, at garage door opening. should i use mortar repair for that too, no backing rod?

Answered 2 years ago by asker

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Where the drive contacts non-drive elements - walkway/steps, retaining wall, house - all you are looking for is a seal so dirt and water don't get into the crack - so use backer rod only if wide and deep (to avoid using up wads of filler), then the flexible caulk-like joint sealer product which you were, as I recall, using to seal the top of the open construction/ expansion joints between the slabs in the drive, and I think also at the retaining wall contact - would also be used at the joint between drive and garage slab.

Answered 2 years ago by LCD




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